Sanctuary for the Abused

Saturday, August 25, 2018

Should You Confront a Narcissist about His Narcissism?

by Beth McHugh

This is a question I am often asked by clients who are dealing with a narcissist in their lives. The answer is: it depends.

As a psychologist, I cannot tell a client what to do, they have to come to a decision about what to do about problems in their lives on their own and be comfortable with those decisions. But what I can do is point out the pros and cons of telling a person suffering from narcissistic personality disorder (NPD), and what effects that revelation can have on the client.

Narcissistic personality disorder is an unusual condition on that it operates via its own set of rules. You can tell a person suffering from alcoholism that they have a problem with alcohol and they have one of two choices. Either to deny their alcoholism or face it and change.

It is similar with many other forms of mental illness. While denial can be an integral part of many illnesses, the person suffering from one of the anxiety disorders is aware that they are ill. Similarly, depression and bipolar disorder can be ignored up to a point, but once the symptoms become clinically disabling there can be no self-denial, even if outwardly the person is denying the truth.

This is not the case with NPD. The whole crux of the condition is built on the premise that, for the narcissist, other people do not really exist except to serve the narcissist and prop up their false image of themselves. Not having individuated as people, narcissists believe the world revolves around them and is intensely interested in them. In believing this they are especially harmful people, and cause untold damage to their children in particular.

Once an adult child has discovered that the eccentric and toxic behaviors of their parent is due to NPD, there can be an overwhelming urge to confront the parent who has caused them so much pain with the fact that there is something psychologically wrong with them.

When my clients arrive at this stage in their recovery, we discuss how viable this option is. It really depends on the reason why you as an adult child of a narcissistic parent want to tell your parent. If it is in the hope that, upon reading about the condition, they will recognize themselves in the description and be filled with remorse for the pain they have caused, then beware.

The narcissist's sense of self, which has not progressed past that of a very young child, they cannot deal with the reality of a mirror being held up before them. Unlike the alcoholic who may in due course "see the light", a narcissist simply does not have the emotional skills to step outside of themselves and glimpse the truth in the mirror. The essence of NPD is that the sufferer lives in a bubble that can only accommodate themselves. Self-reflection is definitely not in the narcissist's bag of skills and expecting them to be capable of doing so can court disaster.

Be prepared for rage and aggression to be aimed at you. Be prepared to not be heard.. Be prepared to have everything that you claim about them, to be reassigned to you. When and if you are strong enough to cope with this treatment, then you may decide to go ahead.

If you are hoping for recognition and a change for the better, more pain is in store.


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shared by Barbara at 12:06 AM



From personal experience, I would say, there's nothing to be gained by confronting the N about anything he has done wrong, let alone that he's narcissistic. It's weird, but when I would confront my husband about something, and it was big, he would almost dissociate on me. At first I made the mistake of thinking his fugue-like gaze meant he was listening, but then I could literally see it SNAP!, and he'd go off on what was wrong with me. Projection is the key--if you say something bad about them, it immediately reverts to must be something wrong with you.

Also, their thinking is incredibly illogical, to the point of absurdity. I wrote about this, and gaslighting over at theotherbed.

12:06 AM  

I openly tell him he is a narcissist and has a limited conscience. I don't even care anymore. It is my way of venting. I have said "you are not normal". I believe I got with him because I was severely abused, and after I healed I saw what he was.

He doesn't beat me so I probably get away with more then some women could. [did have slaps etc, before he went into counseling and destroyed stuff]
He is getting more obessed as he ages with an audience, and actually believe everyone adores him and he is "a star". Even just from a spiritual standpoint it freaks me out. The other bed I will check out your website.

1:43 PM  

I confronted my surviving NPD parent about the emotional and psychological abuse that she laid on me...and frankly, she started gaslighting. There is actually no way to get through to these people that they have done something wrong. It isn't in their capacity. All it did was leave me further invalidated and enraged.

I've resigned myself to the feeling that the only true freedom I will ever have from her is when she finally dies of old age. Until then, I will have to completely remove myself and my family from her reach.

6:34 PM  

Why wait for her to die? Go NO CONTACT immediately - and save your sanity & your family!

11:10 PM  

Just confronted the N in our life. It only elevates their sense of importance and puts them back in control. They will NOT hear a word you say. The N will not appreciate your desire to have peace because they are not capable of empathy, nor recognize any fault. N only managed to say "i'm not jealous but" (envy is a major part of the condition) and then proceed with the but. Turns out that she wasn't happy because our lives were not focused on her and her need to be included in everything. Interpretation, "your healthy boundaries cut off my supply". They do not recognize that your lives are not an extension of theirs. When you set healthy boundaries the N will try to insert self in every manipulative way possible. Forget about confronting them and focus on being the true you. It's the only peace you can get when dealing with the N in your life. There are only two other choices. YOU choose to stroke their ego in order to control THEM and recognize that it is a true mental illness. Or... move.

10:47 PM  

Found a great website titled "The Power of Undeserved Loyalty
Our Psychopath Mother Exhibits the Following Behaviors on a Regular Basis: Narcissistic, Munchausen’s and Munchausen’s By-Proxy"

There's a US state that has the highest number of serial killers, the highest number of Munchausen's by-proxy and the second highest suicide rate. Did it ever occur to anyone that this would be a great place to start doing mri's checking for psychopathy?

9:07 PM  

It is really interesting to read your information, how do people manage the no contact option? i have 2 brothers and 2 sisters in a family where our mother is clearly a covert narcissist. my brothers stay out of everything which is great but both my sisters become involved in triangulation with my mother with me often as the topic of conversation. i love my sisters dearly but there seems no way to stop contact with my mum without also avoiding them. i live the opposite end of the country to my mother but still find it hard to break contact. please help.

4:08 AM  

No Contact is absolute, final and NO excuses or loopholes.

If your siblings, friends or other family are involved with your NParent - unfortunately you MUST No Contact them as well or the abuse will continue.

10:00 AM  

Thank you for your reply Barbara, thats what i thought but it seems so sad. I think it is going to be the only option too, will involve all family including grandparents, because my grandmother is just an older version of my mother but although she doesnt direct any obvious venom towards me she often uses the grandchildren to get at my mum, all becomes so sly and easy to get sucked into without realising. my youngest sister has just found out she is pregnant and now spends everyday at my mums - perhaps it has made her question what she wants from her. my sister has gone from phoning me twice a dat to hardly ever (siblings tend to avoid each other in my mums presence - self-preservation?) so it may be a good time to stop contact, fingers crossed they might not even notice!
I think from reading all your comments i have learnt something important - all this time i have thought it best to acknowledge that her behaviour is wrong and try to put it right - now i see there is nothing i can do, and trying to make people see when she is lying about me or my siblings only makes it worse for myself! i feel like my sister has hung me out to dry where my mum is concerned and i wish i could not care.

3:07 AM  

It gets much easier.

This group may help you as well:

11:25 PM  

Here is my take on telling a Narcissist what they are. I wouldn't waste the time. The first thing the narcissist would do is label you a narcissist and then smear you by telling everyone you know the same. By giving them this information, they will spot a weakness in you, and exploit it, they know the last thing in the world you are or want to be is an N, so they hit right there where it hurts the most. They will use the info against you! They can't or won't change anyway so nothing productive will come of telling them they are Ns in my opinion

7:45 PM  

My mother and sister are both narcissistic. i've seen that before i finish talking, they're already formulating their rationalisations of anything i said, even when i have proof. i love my mum, but finally realise the wiring in her brain just isnt there to see any point of view that doesnt give her feelings first priority. Same way an alcoholic can love booze AND be a kind person at the same time. She's not a bad person - she just doesnt 'get' it. Once i understood that, i could structure my emotions to allow for that. So i am now able to love her in a way that i am comfortable with ... but i'll be keeping my emotions protected so they cant be turned around and used on me as a weapon.

8:13 AM  

I just realized yesterday after 37 years that my mother is a Nmom....I tried to relay the information to my sister because she was involved in the triangulation with my mom, aimed at me. After receiving the information, my sister went straight to my mother. 2 hours later I received a message in my inbox from my mother stating that accusing her of being a narcissist was BS and that it was a sorry attempt to cover up the sad truth of how terrible a person I am. She then proceeded to tell me that "if the shoe fits" and posted a website stating the traits of NPD. She accused me of being a narcissist as well. After all of my reading today, and understanding that I am the scapegoat, it makes sense that she would do this. I found this blog looking for a way to help my sister, and now see that No Contact is the only way to prevent more trauma. I hope that this helps others who are looking to help siblings involved with N parents.

7:45 PM  

My problem isn't with a narcissistic parent, but that of a narcissistic 30 year old daughter, who uses anything possible to keep my granddaughter away from myself and her father. Her father and I have been divorced for 17 years. She will take anything we say to her, twisting our words totally out of context, and becoming defensive, turning it all around and using her perception of what is being said as a weapon in her cruel "chess game," using our 5 year old granddaughter as a pawn. Not only is it destroying her father and myself, but also our granddaughter. Any advice would be appreciated!
Thank you!

3:41 PM  

Unfortunately you must cut ties with the NDaughter and your grandchild - at least for now. It's the only way. If you take yourself out of your ND's 'target range' as the granddaughter gets older she will probably figure it out. Also, you are modeling that it is GOOD to step away from someone abusing you, no matter who it is.

1:11 AM  

Can someone please help my mom has Npd and i have no one . My grandmother a npd too and i believe other family members are too . Ive tryed telling her how i feel but its like talking to wall . She flips everything and she is always in rage. Im 18 and i have nothing because of her , im so lost i really need help getting out of this hell :( please my email is

6:05 PM  

Hi. I'm just recently realizing that my mother is a covert narcissist. She sent me a message that was slightly insensitive so I started crying and screaming (I have BPD and OCD) while my husband was driving the car. He was surprised because everything had been fine, so he called her to tell her how upset the message made me. She immediately became defensive and said that he was an irresponsible husband and a hateful person. The next day she came to our house and told me I should not defend my husband against my mother and that he needed to apologize. She started yelling and making no sense. She came to be right and turn everything onto us. She is always innocent and if I tell her anything that she has done was wrong she says it is an attack and that she will attack back because she's a "survivor." We both asked her to leave more than once but she followed my husband upstairs and told him that everything he does is wrong,he's arrogant, and that we are "rebellious little kids". Then when she left she said "i just came to clear up the gray area and reach an understanding. i love you" I didn't respond and she said "aww honey sometimes I wish you were still a little girl." We are the only people who call her out on anything but I'm beginning to see it's not worth it because it gets turned around and we are the bad guys. I know that this is long but I just wanted to get an idea if anybody else thinks this sounds like covert narcissism or if it's me? Of course when I asked my sisters they thought I was wrong and I should cut her some slack. She has always treated me differently for whatever reason, maybe my mental health has caused her issues over the years and I have challenged her. She has been mentally and emotionally abusive and this probably has to do with my BPD. Thank you for any feed back.

10:44 AM  

One time I got so infuriated with my narcissistic mother that I yelled I couldn't wait for her to drop dead. Sadly, I don't regret that comment. Things would be better off if she was gone even if I had to grief her death anyways. Grrr

5:50 AM  

I have as little contact as possible w/ a 53 yo narcissistic stepson as possible. I guess my question would be how far down the family tree do I disassociate myself? One daughter is fine, has 3 kids which 2 of them are being influenced by him. The 3rd of the grt-gkids has a particular fondness for me which he can't stand, nor does he give this 10 yo the time of day. The other daughter does everything imaginable to get his approval, to no avail, I might add. Her kids have not shown signs of being influenced....yet! His mother died 3 yrs ago and he has gotten progressively and steadily worse and treats his dad/my husband awful taboot. Each time my husband has a health issue he gets even worse. Then he likes to claim that I'm trying to "kill his dad off". I love these g-kids and grt-kids dearly, and yes, I've been in their lives from the moment they were born.

10:07 PM  

Do we stop having Christmas Day/and or any other get togethers? Either way we're going to get bashed by some of the grand kids because they are soooo under the spell of dad/uncle. They bash us, me in particular (repeating), behind our backs of course, what the man (my stepson) has said, and these are grown "kids".

12:17 PM  

I just discovered my dads a narcissist and was considering confronting him about it even though I know it wouldnt help and he would get even angrier. After reading these comments its really no point to cause myself anymore grief. I have learned to cope with problem by just doing what I want to do like going out on the weekends without him even if he gets mad. He always said I was abandoning him if I didnt include him in what i did. But i look at it this way, im not happen staying with him always, so why not do what you want, be happy, and then ignore him when he says youre abandoning him. I say dad I love you and will always and im not abandoning you and be done with it. LIVE YOUR OWN LIFE. God bless all of you

8:02 PM  

About 8 months ago, I realized that my 37 year old daughter is a narcissist. Since she was 16 years old, I knew that something wasn't right, but I didn't know what it was until I began researching her characteristics. It didn't take long to figure it out. She was bleeding me dry both emotionally and financially, so I decided that I had no choice but to do no contact. It is so difficult not to be able to see my 3 grandsons, but I know that I cannot, or I will get sucked back into my daughter's web. This will be my first no-contact Thanksgiving and Christmas. My heart breaks, but I don't know what else to do. She just sucks the life out of me. NPD is a horrible disorder. I hate it.

11:35 AM  

I have struggled with an N mother and N adult daughter. It is heart wrenching and incredulous to always be a scapegoat. I set limits with my N mother due to intolerable abuse and phone harassment following the death of my father. I asked her to discontinue berating my deceased father and that taking sides between issues of her adult children only served to deepen resentments. Her reaction was to increase the statements and later to call my phone (s) non-stop for hours in a rage when I hung up on her. I discovered that she told family and friends that I told her to never contact me again. It never happened. She gossiped about a childhood friend of mine to me. I discovered that she indicated that I was her source of information for the gossip! I tried to speak to her, sent cards and gifts for years and then just stopped altogether. As I told her, it's impossible to resolve issues with a person who claims to do no wrong. My adult daughter has shown strong traits of N for many years. She is controlling, flies into rages, and always has an issue, but refuses to discuss it to resolve anything. I believe she delights in claiming to have no mother while it is she who has always pushed me away. I've made multiple offers to help her when she has had problems or illness. I sense she has made claims of serious illnesses for attention. Her cancer just disappeared once I continued to inquire. She went on to another illness, but no information comes forth. She did this with one of her children too in that the worst scenarios were provided. It is her way or else. The NP is something others comment on. I have complimented her on achievements, but it is never enough. She has indicated that people are just jealous of her; she has claimed that of me as well. You. don't. win. Grandchildren are withheld, but we give gifts and money. I sense they hear a lot of negatives about us, but that is out of our control. She obtains "other mothers" while accusing me of not being one to her. The only constant is chaos and anger. I set a limit on texting as that was the only relationship she wanted. All calls were focused on her achievements, nothing more. Since I have indicated that a phone call or face to face visit is preferable, she refuses. As for the person who wants to confront their N relative, please know retaliation will follow. They refuse to acknowledge their own behavior and all things are your fault. I have little contact, strive to not allow their chaos to rule my life, and try to be decent, but not their victim.

1:50 PM  

I'm married to a man who behaves like someone with this NPD. What should I do stay with him or leave him. I'm always so very confused about the tight thing for me. Hrs abusive he is down right evil and terribly mean.

2:59 PM  

What do I do if I'm in love with a man who had NPD. Severely

3:02 PM  

RUN. I married one. He is a 61 yr old Peter Pan. All about him. His needs. His "wonderful-ness"... It's exhausting.. I am too old to jump through hoops and my own health is not what it once was. He helps me with ZERO. Our finances are totally separate and still he whines that I don't contribute. He makes 90K/yr. I make 12K. I get so tired of having the same arguments. Every other day.. I know he's mentally ill.. that's what keeps me there, actually.. If he had a broken leg and couldn't dance, would I divorce him for something he had no control over? I'm torn. But I'm also exhausted. If you can avoid getting involved with one - RUN at the first signs.. " ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, - financially irresponsible, lazy, life of the party, liar, manipulator, refuses to grow up.. " Yes, it's a roller coaster. Constant. Please run if you can. It will never stop.

10:49 AM  

Does anybody know how a person gets this? Is it inherited or due to abuse of some tyoe?

8:28 AM  

In my case, it is my eldest daughter who has NPD. She is using our granddaughter as a weapon against us by not allowing us to see her. She knows there is nothing she can do or say that hurts anybody so she uses her daughter.

9:20 PM  

Hi,I read this article and was pleased at its ruthless honesty and clarity in revealing the narcissist and their inability to look at themselves. After experiencing a Narcissistic Mother and sister, I also believe through my own experience that it is NOT in one's best interests to confront the narcissist about anything. they CANNOT and WILL NOT see or understand what you are saying. the best action one can take is NO contact immediately, which is the ONLY way to heal from such devastating abusivie people, and do without guilt, because it IS all choice, and if they truly wish to heal, and do NOT, it is THEIR choice, and it is YOUR choice to walk away, to enable your own healing process to begin. Everyone has choice, whether they realize it or not.

10:38 PM  

My mother is text book NPD. As a child, I sensed there was something wrong with her but was not able to identify the condition through therapy and reading until 4 years ago. My experience is that confrontation is ineffective and creates additional stress. I am the only child and I tried no contact but was not able to maintain because of my own sense of guilt. What works best is minimal contact. I speak to her a couple times a week if convenient and visit her once a month (she lives 40 minutes away). Conversations are "carefully managed" and I do not share any information with her about my personal life (I am expecting and decided not to tell her until I start showing - if she even notices she'll just tell me I'm too fat). After years of minimal contact and all about HER conversations she expressed to me on several occasion over the past year that she wishes we would communicate better as mother/daughter and that she finds my secrecy "distressing". I would love to be close to her and spend more time with her but from past experience I know she will use any shared information no matter how small to hurt, manipulate or violate boundaries. I love my mother and realize that she is not a whole person. Confronting her would be a waste of time because she is incapable of understanding the hurt and alienation her behaviour has caused. My advice is to see a therapist, do as much reading as you can to understand and heal yourself and enrich your spirit.

6:27 PM  

I am desperately need your help. I have got the one and only younger narcissist brother whom I love madly. He very often misbehaved with my mother, other sister and also with me as he always has the supreme thought about himself and he is the best. I spent lots of money for him and I never said NO to him on any occasion earlier. I always stood by him when ever he needed me. But, he doesnt have any control on his anger and some how force us to intimidate and praise for his behaviour. However, recently I got cheated by my elder sister and also my brother and now my brother is saying that he is cutting off all his relationship with me. In fact I always tried to help him get our of his trauma or any kind of mental problem but now they are spreading bad comments against my husband and forcing me to leave my husband. Already they convinced my other family members and they are not ready to listen my feelings. How can I cut off my 12 years relationship with my husband only because they dont like him.

Further I also love my brother as I always considered him as my child ad take care of him and now as he stopped communication with me, I am not in a position to bear the pain. I dont know what to do. I am emotionally broken. Please help me getting out of the betrayal and trauma.

6:09 AM  

You don't choose your parents and siblings, but you choose your spouse, whom you build your own family with. As an adult, you are a leader and a builder of your life. If someone is not happy with your choices, alow them. It's their choice to be happy or not. Eventually, no one can be happy or unhappy with external things. Happiness starts inside, and it's based on own beliefs and thoughts. If a person plays a victim (I say "plays", because we choose a role for our selves in a theater called "life"), he/she denies own power over own life, avoids accountability and gives a power to others to rule his/her life and emotions. Ones we change our beliefs, our feelings change automatically. We can choose what to believe in. Religions, politics e.t.c are simply choices. So is a relationship. If we believe, we are accountable for our lives and choices, we feel whole and powerful. We can accept the fact that no one is perfect, because we don't know what "perfect" means. We can accept the fact that others may not know this information and have their own image of perfectionism, or how others should behave. Sossiety tends to generalize and label everything deciding what's normal. There are no two identical flowers even though they look the same. Not everyone is capable of total acceptance of differences and uniqueness of all of us. If we accept this fact, we don't need advises, because any advise is based on own experience and belief, so all advises we give to ourselves consequently. Only you can decide for your self. The only advise can be given is - listen to your heart and intuition. Claim your power of being a whole unique and wonderful YOU. Don't let anybody rain on your sparkle. Let people be who they want and do what they want as long as they don't step on you. In my experience with my Nmother, I let her know that her tricks don't work. She gets upset, but it's her choice. Every time I tell her that I'm not interested in her opinion and show that she can't invade my privacy, she understands more and more that I'm not wiling to play her game. In this point, I become a less interesting subject for feeding her narcissism. Narcissists aren't interested in someone, who doesn't show any interest to their "persona" and don't get manipulated. Consequently, they realize that it's painful for them to run into the wall of indeference on your behalf. It always takes a minimum two people to fight. "What ever" approach works wonders. We are here not to please anybody and not to justify ourselves, and if others don't get it, let them make own choices. We can never be good for everyone, but we can be good to ourselves. Otherwise, who would? "Treat yourself the way you want others treat you" ~ Buddha. I'm not a Buddhist, but these words make sense to me, especially when I deal with a narcissist.

1:58 AM  

I am glad i found this article, my brother who i see on and off has moved in with me recently due to a divorce, initially i felt sorry for him but as time went by i came to realize that he is very cold and callus as a person, he opened up to me one day and told me he went to a shrink for a few months, he was told that he is border line psychopathic and a narcissist, the trouble is all his decisions revolve around him, he has Zero emotions and empathy for others, i started reading up on how to deal with these types of personalities and i'm now standing my ground and not communicating with him as much i used to, but we do live together so the No Contact rule is difficult, i'm considering moving out.

I used to feel sorry for him, but now i feel sorry for the people around him who he hurts.

12:55 PM  

Barbara.. He might be weak/depleted on various fronts social,emotional,financial, health .. How does he li e his life.. Who does he share the happy sad bad worse moments .. How does one Trust anyone in society when one comes to face that the very person who they trusted the most.. Have betrayed him.. Without trust n faith how can he share .. His sorrow grief happy moments... Probably he might have another parent too that needs to be rescued... Someone whos even more weaker than himself .. If he leaves .. His other parent will be pulled further into the clutches of this NPD guy.. How does he atleast rescue his all weak other parent so that he can probably

4:41 PM  

Yes stroke thier ego.. They are NPD bcos they are weak themself.. A Hitler was a NPD but probably he didnt do it with his wife, child.. He had the world as a feed for his Narcissism.. Believe most of world Bosses were Narcissist.. Theres a difference between Leader n Boss.. Both influence ppl via the love/helplessness (enrich/eat on the weakness)resp .

4:49 PM  

I made the exact same mistake. Thinking I was going to try and help protect Sis and her kids from my crazy Narc Mother.
Wrong move on my part. Actually wasnt Total Complete Failure.... As The whole bizarre conversation with Sis and her refusal to even look at the facts. Helped open my eyes. And help make my decision to Go (no contact)with the whole bunch of wackos SO MUCH EASIER.
Good Lord!!! Now I just need to learn How to process all this rage I am feeling.
Thanks to all!

3:10 AM  

I hav a situation where my adult asked us for $40000 which I don't have. He and his wife became unglued when we said no that we can't afford it we r retired.. son was very hurtful and disrespectful to both me and my husband in text.. He would not talk in person because we lecture apparently. He just wants money with no discussion I guess... now he wants to agree to disagree and wants us to apologize. . We did nothing but say we can't afford it.. I don't feel we should have to apologize for saying this.. He should for saying terrible and hurtful things to us which hurt deeply. Where do I go from here?

1:58 PM  

My eldest sister is a narcissist. She is a very dangerous person who has damaged a lot of lives, including those of two of her four children. The other two I believe realize something is not quite right with her and have moved far away.
There is nothing to be gained by trying to reason with this woman. She concocts these outrageous lies to justify her bad behavior. Her capacity for hate is bottomless.
She has enmeshed her 40 year old daughter into her warped way of thinking so that now it is impossible to tell where one ends and the other begins.
Although my niece is a highly educated, successful, professional woman, she still lives at home with her mom. She has never had a lasting relationship with a man or has any friends really.
Her son believes everything his mother says, but occasionally has moments when he see's his mother for what she is. He stops contact for months, but eventually gets pulled back in.
Lately I have become her new scapegoat and am trying to deal with her rage- all directed at me. Not only is it painful, but I find myself afraid of her. She is truly an evil person.
I have found that in the past she gets enraged when ignored. I refuse to speak to her or about her to anyone. She has physically attacked my brothers and I when we dared challenge her. I feel bad for her children. And well really all of us because she is in our lives and is truly a Godless person.

8:56 AM  

I have a brother in law that is an N. Recently his mother or my mother in law had a heart attack and had Bypass surgery. He came in from out of town and visited her at the hospital. He immediately started barking orders to the staff and also his older siblings. He flat out told my wife and her sister that they don't know what there doing. He started controlling the schedule and wouldn't let people see his mother not even his own siblings. He says he is the only one qualified to be there. He has made my mother in law uncontrollably twice while she is still recovering. He called for a family meeting sohe could let everyone know his frustrations. I told everyone to not show up because it is a futile matter and a way for him to show he is in control. So we all decided to go out to lunch without him. It was a wonderful reunion that allowed us all to catch up and enjoy each others company. We decided to go visit my mother in law to show her that she has our support and love. I knew he would be there and he would be angry that know one showed up to his rant party. I council ed the family to ignore him completely like he is not there. It worked like a charm. When we got there he started in on us. But we just ignored him and spoke to his mother and we all were happy and care free. He was dumbfounded and flustered. He left and went home. My mother in law was able to recover without his antagonistic comments and attacks. Morale of the story is that the best way to beat an N is to make him believe he is irrelevant and what he says holds no wait in any given situation. They will leave on their own according when they realize that they have authority or control

5:35 AM  

What do you do when you are court ordered to deal with a Narcissist on a weekly bases? My daughters father is one of the worst N I could ever imagine, so much so he has his entire family afraid to even say anything and is a world class manipulator. I am so afraid he is going to hurt our 3 year old emotionally as she gets older and don't know what to do. He exhibits every one of the character traits to a sever extent. I desperately want him out of our lives but even the court ordered psychologist didn't think it mattered and gave him more time with our daughter. I have confronted him about his N but he ignores my statement and begins to berate me on how worthless I am and how I need to obey him because I'm such a crappy person and I am hurting our daughter because I cry after he puts me down. Any suggestions?! Would love any insight?!

6:09 AM  

I agree, the only way is to remove yourself from the life of the Narcissist. I only email with her for emergency situations and I communicate with the caregiver of our brother-- who is disabled, not being around my brother hurts me deeply but I will not survive if I am around her any longer. She has become physically violent since my parents have passed, I had to draw the line. I feel free! I hope this helps someone out there, YOU CAN DO IT!

8:24 PM  

I realized that merely commenting to conversations with one NR (narcissistic relative) is perceived as competition. In retrospect, I they seem to believe I take the attention from them whereas in my mind I viewed it as a mutual exchange and dared to add any past experience that was pertinent to the topic at hand! I thought that was conversation. Their spouse would laugh in my face if I commented and it became evident that I was to remain silent (or offend her). As parents, we cannot seem to give enough praise for achievements. Granted, we praise and are proud of their accomplishments; however, since we don't make it the topic of every future conversation then we've let them down. If you are not a lemming then you serve no purpose. If angered, people are immediately contacted and comments are made on social media at our expense. If asked our opinion and it differs, watch out!
Multiple invitations are extended that appear to be an attempt to have a relationship on the surface, but absolutely none are followed through. I've surmised that this may be a punishment to a perceived slight? Evidently that is easier than just discussing the problem? We've been left giving extra food to neighbors (when stood up), fully dressed to go somewhere (stood up), yet, if confronted, it is "look what all you've done to me!" Trying to get a list of the grievances is met with a vague response and silence (tried for years). Stating that a relationship problem is evident and that you'd like to discuss it is met with a vague response. I believe they prefer the status quo and it gives me power and control. For years, it was pointless to call because they wouldn't answer. If there is communication, it is in written form. If in text, rest assured it will be forwarded to others and exploited (control). Attempts to discuss issues is met with an immediate raised voice, anger and justification (controlling you to not confront them?). How dare we try to get to the real issue. Maybe the slander is so much and widespread that it's easier to keep pushing us away(and then blame us for not being involved). This individual is talented and can be delightfully charming to others. They put a lot of effort in their public image. All good deeds (real or not) are put on social media. If there's something wanted, a quick and superficial effort to be nice occurs (to get the response they want). Once they get their way, our invisible)expiration notice is once again placed on our foreheads (might as well interject humor). It has gone on for years. Church members, mutual friends, relatives, etc., have all been notified of their anger and the rages are unbelievable. The embellishments and outright lies are outrageous. People have made snide comments to us and relationships forever marred. We don't spend time trying to put out fires nor do we live in defense mode anymore. We just live our own life knowing grandchildren will grow up knowing us through the eyes of the NP. We give gifts, etc., and there's no response; no manners required, yet we are held to high standards of behavior. Luckily, we see it for what it is and have a good life. It is just all so unnecessary and sad knowing things could be different. As for the poor image in the eyes of those who have the NP's 'ear', I hope their naiveté lifts, but it's not going to weigh us down if it doesn't. The gaslighting and flying monkeys rings true. I've verbalized that this makes us sad. I realize that the information was then used as ammunition. But, I decided to be who I am, but not the NP's victim. Every year, holidays are met with the traditional difficulty to arrange something. Why? I believe they find pleasure in causing any stumbling block to any path of a joyful relationship. I'd rather feel hurt now and then than be the one in need to dole out negativity. Once you see it for what it is, it is helpful. I subscribe to the belief that it would be MY fault if I allow any NP to completely rule my emotions.

10:32 AM  

My older brother was named the sole executor of my mothers estate by my mother herself in her early stages of Alzheimer's. He bullied her into it and she capitulated. He he is a fullblown N, a rageoholic, an liar and a fraud. It is a tragedy that is a natural endpoint given all the bullying that went on in my family. I can take him on but his arguments slither to a new perspective whenever he wants to. He has to be right all the time and will manufacture justifications as needed. If there is a way to wrest the sole executorship from such a monster in Florida please let me know, though a lawyer has informed that if he is good enough with numbers he can keep the position. It feels like God died the day my brother was born.

10:40 PM  

After I made the decision to cut off contact with my narc sister, I texted her that I would not be contacting her anymore because her narcissism was too destructive to me. I said if she would like to have a relationship with me she would have to show some interest in my life. She did not respond to my text and has made no effort (it's been 6 months). This was a difficult decision because I do not have a close family and she was my strongest connection (but it was a very dysfunctional connection, I was really just her puppet). In my opinion you should tell the narc that they are a narc but only after you have made the decision to cut off ties and you can do it in a non emotional way (my sister sees emotion as weak and me crying would actually make her feel more powerful over me). Telling them is more for your closure and not for an attempt that they will change. I think that my sister knows she is a narcissist and she likes being one.

10:41 PM  

Omg guess I'm joining the club ! My 31-year-old daughter and son-in-law are both narcissists and use our three young grandchildren as weapons against us. They are constantly judging me and telling me what they don't like but they never say what they do like. They're cold as ice and want no contact with my husband and I. But they call themselves "good Christians "because my son-in-law is a pastor's son so thinks he's perfect like his Christian family is. He was homeschooled and raised by two narcissistic parents and he and his six siblings are all narcissists and it has spread over to my daughter and now it is working into my three grandchildren! They are controlling situations of my life like what I post in Facebook down to how long I get to see the kids or if I get to see the kids depending on their moods. It's KILLING ME!

8:59 PM  

My mother was a hateful, violent and complete narcissist- I married two narcissists- the 2nd a psychiatrist- and each harmed me deeply. My daughter I am sad to say also has these traits. I give the impression that I am tough, smart- no nonsense- it doesn't take long before they know my vulnerability and make good with the image to the world that they are so loving, tolerant etc-. My question and comment are about my reactions- especially to my child- the fact that my own longings and hurts led me to become for lack of a better word- 'afraid' of her through the years. I was terrified of my own mother- and throughout her teen and young adult years- backed off from effective limit- setting. Like my mother and her father- she's most adept at finding just the right situation to shame and humiliate me- giving 'nothing' even when I was ill, and following an accident. I know enough now to understand I must completely detach from her- but the pain- especially regarding the grandkids- is almost unbearable. I too am amental health professional- and take extreme issue with the glutton for punishment theory- but I believe the fearful child- victim of narcissistic rage, etc- reacts far more strongly to those displaying these behaviors- Truman Capote once wrote- and I paraphrase- regarding Marilyn Monroe- She never learned to be afraid of the things the rest of us were taught to fear.

7:02 PM  

We narcissists are massive losers. I had no idea about it in my past 28 years.

It's seriously fucked up.

11:15 AM  

Wow - there are sadly so many of us. After finally realizing that my mother was a narcissist and had therapy to deal with her her last 2 years of her life - I have the sad realization that my daughter most likely has a BPD. Add alcoholic and addicted to anti anxiety and anti depressants and I am in a new hell. Daughter tried (kind of) to hurt herself Easter and sent to 15 people a picture of her wrist she cut she was placed in a 72 hr hold. When I went to see her (drove 2 hrs to get there) I saw that she was a younger, stronger, meaner version of my mother. She has 2 beautiful boys 11 & 9 who she is completely mentally abusing with her behaviors - and been going thru a 5 yr divorce with an enabler - lost pretty much everything - is now blaming me for all that is happening it appears. We are not speaking as she told me not to contact her - I sent a text to my grandson who we together set up this was to chat for fun - daughter text me not to contact him as it was inappropriate as we were not speaking. So now I can't even see how school is for him. Do I just have no contact and sneak to see the kids when I can? There is so much more - but too much to write. Thanks in advance for any advice

11:23 PM  

A couple of months ago, I discovered, after 'googling' "my mother is a bully", that she is actually a Narcissistic Mother. I made the fatal error of mentioning this to my younger sister (The Golden Child) hoping it would go no further - silly mistake. She is like The Mother (TM).

Anyhow, after hearing from a friend that TM is saying that I owe money to people around town (I owe nothing - despite being a self employed lone parent) and that she's concerned I have a Narcissitic Personality Disorder, I've decided to stop talking to her (we live very close in a small town in Wales). I've had enough after 43 years. And my sister clearly can't be trusted.

I will never win, I will never be even 'good enough'. So sod her. My advice is be the best person you can be. Personally, I became a Christian 3 years ago and if that doesn't force daily reflection and insight into your life, I'm not sure what will. Therefore, I feel loved by my friends just by being me - there is no need to be 'fed' love - I'm happy and content doing what I do. I love my children, I work hard, I help others when I can. I'm not perfect but I don't gossip, I don't speak ill of people, I'm honest about my feelings and opinions - sometimes I get angry but my heart has its foundation based in love. I can forgive and I apologise when I'm wrong. More importantly, I recognise when I've done wrong. Sadly, TM won't see this either in herself or in others. So for my own sanity and for the near future - I'm going to walk away. It probably won't be forever, but confrontation doesn't usually solve anything - especially in cases like these. My heart goes out to others and I'm glad to discover . . . it's not mel!!!!!!!

1:08 PM  

This hit me like a ton of bricks. I have recently stopped talking to my mother and five (all much older) siblings. Im the last of six. I was literally dropped into an already deep dysfunction. My mother did the basics well but she terrorized, had mood swings, raged, threw things, and then would move on like it never happened. That behavior becoming normal is very damaging.

I'm 35 and just getting this after creating my own bad marriage filled with the same behavior as my mother on my end. It's was automatic for me to act out terrible with my ex husband because I had witnessed my mother and father get along just fine that way. It was a lie.

My siblings are done I think, they don't see her behavior as outrageous. I see my behavior from back then as terrible, I never want to be that girl again. I havent been that way in ten years but I still feel like something is crappy, I NEVER feel good around them. I feel anxious, defensive, unattractive and unacheived.

Now mind you I'm told I'm beautiful everywhere I go, I became a computer science professor at 26 years old. I have written three novels and published two so far. I own my home and am going back to a great university for my PhD, yet I feel like I've done nothing around them. We barely acknowledge anything the other is doing. We don't know how to be close. We weren't even allowed to touch and hug. I don't place my emotional expectations on others or use guilt or manipulate anymore. I feel terrible admitting that I had acted this way, but I didn't know better. I saw that ugliness work for my mother. But my mother condemned me so much like she wasn't the exact person I was becoming. She bad mouthed me to my mother in law, my siblings and my now ex husband, all of her friends and siblings, she couldn't wait, it was gossip disquised as concern. It's like she enjoyed my marriage falling apart at my own hands. I should have been done with her when she accused me of being jealous of her and told me I think I'm better, and I like to compete with her. I told my siblings and nobody thought it was outrageous for a mother to accuse her daughter of that. It took me four years later to figure this out.

They're a cult. It's sick. Not one of my siblings have a healthy relationship, including myself, and neither does any of the grand children. Their is alcohol abuse, bulimia, obesity, and lets not forget, everybody is always broke, skint! I feel like I got my freedom papers, lol, like I escaped a cult full of secrets, lies, pretending, competitiveness, envy, and especially LOW SELF ESTEEM. I have been attached to my family like glue all of my life and it was hard to admit to myself that our dynamic was a problem, a hindrance.

We all need a break but I don't think my siblings have it in them. Much gratitude for helping me gain a little more clarity.

1:39 PM  

Do you love your husband, next.

12:44 AM  

I am just realizing this must be the problem with my 26 year old daughter. We have been dealing with her irrational anger and hatred for nearly ten years now and even though she has graduated college and moved to another state, it has not stopped. She visited over the summer, only to tell everyone that her hate is justified because her father molested her her entire childhood and I ignored it, both of which are ludicrous. Nobody believes her but she doesn't care, she caused the pain to her parents that she wanted to and then went home. I don't know what to do. I still love her and I"m worried because she is going to get married and have children in the next few years and she's is obviously in need of help:(

11:56 AM  

I've read that it's "learned". So if you grew up with a N parent you have. 50/50 chance of becoming N. Also, my counseled told me you then have a tendency to be friends with N's, marry N's because your comfortable around them.

9:12 PM  

Thanks, I'll check out that site. I agree it's time the medical industry starts doing something about this illness!! Can't there be a medication to make them nice? I'd even drop one in her coffee if it would help!! They are criminally responsible for the destruction of their children and they get away with it, even get an approving nod from society Victims need more help!

12:37 PM  

I recently confronted my father (NPD) regarding my stepmother's emotional and verbal abuse (she also has NPD). Although my father listened to specific examples of abuse I cited, he told me "it's time to move on" and then blamed me for having the audacity to bring up the points I made. He ended with, "she's a part of me, and if you don't have a relationship with her, you don't have one with me." I don't even feel sad anymore - just a lot of anger.

11:28 PM  

I am the child of 2 N parents and a N brother. He is the 'golden child' and he eats it up although he pretends to care about me he doesn't. He plays his snide remarks and slights where no one can actually say he said it. His wife is also a 'golden child' and a N along with the 2 children he had with his 2nd wife. They are all the same person. They're 'scapegoat' is the 2 children from his former marriage. It worked out well for the 2 children from his current marriage otherwise one of them would have been the scapegoat. they talk about everyone behind their back. they make a game of it laughing and making a mockery of them all. It's pathetic to be around them.

My mother told me she will be waiting for me in heaven when I die so we can spend eternity together. I told her to not look for me because I won't be looking for her and I won't be around her or 'her family'. "Her family' is what I call my brother and his family. She worships all of them. It is impossible for them to do anything wrong or commit a sin whereas I can not do anything right. I told her I would not be part of her world to worship her son and his wife and family.

I have gone for years not speaking to any of them and not one did I feel any form of missing them. I am speaking now because mother is dying but only when I have to. They all destroyed any sense of self I could have. I still feel shattered and unable to deal with many of the ordinary situations of life. I have gone to therapy for years while they made snide remarks and laughed in my face. I have no love for any of them.

7:21 PM  

My daughter asked herself the same
Her stress level was very high. She talked to
Me and her father. But, She waited too
Long, and had a brainstem stroke caused
By him.
She is now unable to talk, aND a paraplegic.
He has her Power of Attorney for everything
AND used it to sell her half of 900k
House to him for $1.00.
I confronted him and had legal battles that
Cost me thousands. I now have not
Seen my daughter and Grandchildren
For over 3 years.

If you think he is a narcissist--LEAVE NOW.
It only gets worse.

10:08 PM  

Maybe you're the narcissist, and they are trying to no-contact you. If you think everyone around you is the problem, chances are you're actually the problem. Mind blown.

12:16 AM  

My adult stepson has Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He's 36 years old and I've known him since he was about 6 years old. He is married and has 3 young sons. He also has a serious lifelong drinking problem.

I always thought that he was behaved so horribly and flew into rages because of the the alcoholism and I always clung to the hope that he'd get into treatment one day and go through the 12 steps, and he'd finally be cured. It took me all this time for the lightbulb to come on that he isn't a raging ass because of alcohol but because he has a personality disorder. Even when he's not drunk, he's still a raging ass. Now I have no hope at all of his recovery, so I actually hope he drinks himself to an early grave to save his poor kids from being subjected to his insanity. That's a horrible thing to think, let alone type, but I am so hopeless now of it ever getting better.

He has been so horribly abusive to us, and he focuses all his rage on his father (my husband) and me. It's all irrational and there's nothing we can do that would ever satisfy him. We'd have to move in next door to him, be with him every day, baby sit every day, run errands for him, clean his toilet with our toothbrushes while singing his praises and telling him how he's the smartest, most amazing man who ever graced this world, and he'd still find a way to turn it around and say we didn't do enough.

There's no end to the blaming and accusing and screaming, and it's always the same list of grievances over and over again. I am torn up inside about it because I don't want to lose the grandkids, and I am also somewhat afraid of him. He's a gun nut and every time I see a story in the news about a son killing his parents, I think it'll end up being me next.

We live in the same town and I think about moving as far away as I can get and just hiding for the rest of my life but then I think why should I let him make me hide and cower? I am just giving him the power he gets off on. I don't know what to do.

3:42 PM  

After 50 plus years I have finally gone no contact with my family. I did so so that I can mentally and emotionally heal up. I think and suspect there is mental illness on both sides of family. I am so bitter and angry and feel so abused over the years. It ruined my life. Starting over. Trying to forgive but just can not.

11:34 AM  

When my parents died, they put my inheritance in a trust in the hands of my narcissist brother. You can't deal with these people, you either suffer through it, or you pay lawyers to suffer for you.

8:33 PM  

Ahhh maybe there is something to. What she is saying.

10:17 AM  

I have a daughter who too has ALL the characteristics of NPD. It's been very upsetting to realize this, but we have to keep strong. My faith is what's keeping me going. I started with No Contact also. I have a 2 year old grandchild I we will never know. You are right, it is a very terrible brain disorder, and it is heartbreaking for us mom's and dad's, and also for her brother who had realized she's been "different" for a long time.

8:43 AM  

I found out at age 37 what exactly I have been a part of all my childhood. It was like a feeling of relief to put a new to my mom personality. But honestly I didn't think others but myself was going through this. It is great to relate and understand what others have went through and experienceed.I wanted to send information in the mail to my mom to give her some awareness, but without letting her know it was from me.But after reading what the outcome can be. As fas as no acknowledging the wrong in her I just say forget it.I am as you all know the scapegoat, my sister is the golden child,and her husband is the "flying monkey ". What as mess I learned last year to just stay away. And my mom is now trying to punish my 17 year old daughter through me. All because I took her out of private school and into public.But come to find out that is a good thing.Because she use to talk to my daughter about the golden child snd flying monkey.Less stress and I have nothing to do with any of them.

1:25 PM  

Yes that is true. In the beginning my sister showed no traits like my mother even would question the ways she would do things, even told me when my mom trated her bad for dating her boyfriend now her husband/ flying monkey, she came to stay with me and would tell me all the mean nasty things my mom would say about me. But now they have this faulse love for each other because they all stsy together. But my mom has talked about both of them to my daughter thst is 17. Now bith my sis and mom are like twins. They hate and deal with the same few people. My sis has not 1 friend her age. Shr is 31. For the pasr 6 years they act so much alike. My mom dont work neither my sis.Husbands take care of them my dad and my sis husband the flying monkey.They all live together. And our children do not come around each other. It is sooo funny how I have family values, when we were taught to hate my d as d side of the family as kids. It is so sad!

1:44 PM  

It makes me feel better to read everyone's comments and know I am not alone. I have been married to one for 20 years. I am naive and positive and for 18 years believed everything he said, including all the names he called me when I said the wrong thing and made him mad. The jig is up and I am trying to stay sane and rebuild myself, while staying with him. There is always, fear, distrust and now clarity. God has helped me, but I am a work in progress. I always thought if I behaved "right" and loved him enough he would change. Now I see my daughter seeking boyfriends with the same tendencies and it is frightening. Word of advice....walk away if you even think someone has this condition.

10:18 AM  

I recently confronted my brother with my assumptions that he has NDP, he accused me of judging him and all the rest that comes with the disorder , he told me straight out that I was nothing to him and to never contact him again...he has always treated our Mom like a stranger he hates , cold and heartless,he decided to stop calling her she is 70 years old and alone how can any Son do that to his own other. I decided I would never accept or respect his behaviour and I did not need someone as mean as he in my life, so i messaged him all of what should of been said years ago ,I would of never of been capable of telling him verbally so by text it was put out there,I am relieved that I said what was said ,even if I know he just doesn't not get it, as long as i get it and now my Mom and Dad get it as well ,sad very sad, but I choose to be happy in my life and stand up for what I believe in

10:25 PM  

This is helpful information for people struggling in relationships with narcissistic people. While it is true that someone battling the disease of alcoholism must eventually come to the end of denial in order receive the help they need, those who have NDP simply do not have access to the needed tool of humility.

9:49 PM  

I was often the scapegoat growing up, especially when I got older and lost confidence that I could do anything that my mom would approve of. My dad went along and believed every accusation of incompetence foolishness she leveled at either kid. I gave up trying, so as time went on it was easier for her to do. I looked the part.

Then I married an emotionally abusive wife. Different style, so I didn't recognize it. Plus, I didn't know love could be given freely, or respect, or affirmation, or encouragement... She really saw me coming. She is quiet and manipulative. Her control is more of the "gatekeeping" type. She doesn't micro-manage, but there is no time when she will allow emotional intimacy to even be discussed positively. She relies on her FOO to help create distance and turmoil -- they are more toxic than she is so they are only too willing to stir the pot. She supports them and counters me as a rule. They are toxic, contemptuous towards me, and any attempt to create boundaries is circumvented, and used to label me as abusive (isolating her from family).

I don't think describing the traits of a personality/character disorder would help my mom or my wife. They don't apologize, speak candidly, show goodwill, pursue the truth, try to heal, or empathize. And, they, especially my wife, have gaslighted me a lot. They both think every problem starts and stops with me. DARVO is the best thing I could hope to receive from them.

What I think *could* have helped, though I think it is possibly too late, is if other decent people were willing to speak up and identify cruel actions. No names, no disorders, just saying, "hey! Are you just an animal that you would shred a person like that?? and your *son* on top of it all??" I wish someone would have said, "your dad did WHAT?? You told him not to show his face until he changed and made it right didn't you?"

I asked counselors, pastors, elders, friends for help. Not a single one had anything to suggest beyond, "I'll be praying" (which I seldom believe), or "just love/honor them... that's what Jesus wants." After my wife smeared me by insinuating that I might hurt her, there were tons of flying monkeys to add to toxic in-laws who were willing to believe anything negative about me. No one will call out the actual wrong. They won't even say, "if you were to do in this situation, it would not just be wrong but cruel and incredibly hurtful."

Both my mom and wife would deny that they would even dream of doing such an awful thing. The social pressure of people being willing to identify kindness and evil, however, would probably made things more bearable, and deterred some of the awfulness. In a time when we truly need people to stand up for what is good and right, it is unfortunate that a rebuke is so commonly seen as a matter of meanness or judging. Discernment, and seeking the welfare of people around us so that we are willing to just identify evil is kindness to victims and society in general.

I still have no help, no one watching my back, no one who really believes me enough to call a spade a spade. I am the only voice, and I am just an object of contempt.

5:22 PM  

I realized three years ago that my mother is a covert NPDer. I am an adult son offspring, and the scapegoat. My younger sister is the golden child; my older sister is the forgotten one, but once was a golden child, and also played a role as a scapegoat.

After being gone 20 years and returning to Toxic Environ Alpha (mother's house), I saw the cNPD mother's tools that were not visible before when in constant and close proximity to her.

First: She loves to talk about herself, disregarding one's comments and instantly going on a 20 minute dissertation about herself. It happens every time, every visit, every phone call. That was the first clue. Be on the lookout for, "I remember when I ..."; or, "I know we weren't talking about this, but I'm going to change the subject (about herself)"; or, the even blunter "I don't want to talk about that" (so I can talk about myself).

Second: She constantly devalues me and my older sister to our faces. It is a subtle devaluation and it happens multiple times within a conversation. Her constant go-to devaluation is to let you know that she called the younger sister continously over the past week. She never calls me or my older. The intended toxic message from cNPD mother is, "golden child is more important, so you must try harder to please me." Also, she always talks about how much the yard guy does around the house. The real message is "he does so much more for me, you must do more." It doesn't matter that she is paying him for the work - that is lost within her mind game. Both are subtle, constant and oh-so-very intentional. There's many other examples.

Third: My term for it is "throttled listening". She is deaf in one ear and uses this as part of the ploy. I will say something to her with no verbal or physical response. I will repeat it. Nothing. I will repeat it a third time or say, "Did you hear me?" She then will suddenly whip her head around directly at me, send daggers with her eyes, and say, "I heard you the first time" with a vicious, angry expression - the inner true rage revealed. This is a triple-whammy technique of devaluing you, guilting you into thinking you are responsible for her anger, and once again using the devaluation and anger to make you work harder for her vampirish needs.

Fourth: My mother continuously make excuses for the golden child sister. My older sister pointed this out to me about 18 months ago, and I was amazed when I noticed it. Even more amazing, was how I didn't actually "see it" until my older sister told me to watch for it. Happens every visit, every phone call. It is what I call the "attempted jealousy ploy", but also is meant to devalue to TRY HARDER for her feeding frenzy!

Fifth and final: Of course, my mother is a master at gaslighting, demeaning, projecting, love-bombing (very restrictive, just enough to bring one back into the caustic den of insanity), threats of changes to the inheritance, super-triangulation, denial/lies, and constant efforts to receive pity.

So, everything is directed to feed her need for supply, supply, and more supply of your precious lifeblood for her vacant soul. If you can't go "no contact", then I suggest "limited contact". It really does help define your boundaries and help reduce codependancy. Separate yourself from the insanity.

Be great for yourself and too yourself - you deserve it!

12:24 PM  

I didn't figure out my mother had a NDP personality until I was 56. The minute I read the characteristics it was like the clouds opened up and the sun was able to shine again. I have 3 sisters and my mother would constantly "stir the pot" as we used to call it. She was the master of triangulation. My mother divorced my father when I was 16 and married a horrible man one year later. He then brought his three unstable children to live with us. It only took six months for the three of us remaining at home to go and live our dad. Two of my sisters are also narcissists and I realized that I am the codependent scapegoat. I was the one who ran to help anyone in my family. It was never reciprocated. My mother stopped talking to me a year and a half ago because we were having a heated discussion about my mentally ill sister who was not doing well. I asked her if she loved me and she replied in a very evil tone, "you don't love me." I just blurted out that she was right I didn't. I was hurt at first and tried to establish contact with her for the first few months. I final realized that my life was so peaceful. I read in someone's post about having to go no contact with all members of the family and it is so true. My mentally ill sister still talked to my mother and my relationship with her deteriorated rather quickly. Because of the stress of taking care of my sister's affairs I became very ill and have been for a year. One would think your family would care about you and check in, but no word from anyone. So now I don't talk to anyone in my family and I'm living a more peaceful life. Even my husband and children agree that having them out of our lives is so nice. I would like someone to answer a question for me. My mentally ill sister lives in our rental on our property.I keep my horse Since I have been sick I haven't been over to the property and haven't seen or talked to her. I also live in a very rural area so once I'm well, I will probably run into my mother. What do people say when they run into "No contact" family members?

3:21 PM  

Barbara I've got the same situation going on with my daughter. I've been to hell and back but I'm thankful for my faith in God since it's a spiritual warfare battle we are fighting. I wish there was a support group for mothers like us. I'm sure we could talk for hours, even days, of all the the crazy verbal abuse they've given us. I've had to go No Contact and I miss my sweet granddaughter of 2 years old that I'll never be blessed to know.

9:31 PM  

NPD has a genetic link, too, (something wrong with the wiring in their brain), as well as environmental. My NPD daughter is just like my mother in law, only my daughter has the full blown disorder whereas my MIL has some empathy and has pretty many of the trails. They are both left-handed too...1 in 4 lefthanded people have mental problems. Yikes...I truly believe there is an inherited chromosome link!!

9:46 PM  

Holy crap....I've been contemplating trying to help my GC brother....don't think I will now.

12:44 PM  

It's hard for me to wrap my head around the people who say they just discovered their mother or father is a narcissist after like 35,40 years. I guess I would have been the same way if my mother didn't kick me out of her house when I was 14. That was the first time I saw who she truly was and that was a self-centered, gross, pathetic, diseased, codependent, rationalizing whore. She really is and I hate her. She has ruined the sanctity of marriage for me since she's proved men are disposable objects to be used. Whenever she's around a new guy she uses this soft voice and it just disgusts me. She is so discusting. She goes after alchoholic losers and I used to get beat up but she would reward them in sex because it made her feel less jealous of her kids. I wish she would drop dead for real.

12:26 PM  

My older brother must be an N. It makes me sad because I've already lost one brother to illness and he's all I have left. I spent most of my childhood scared of him, he was quick to temper. He talks incessantly, never asks you how you are because I seriously don't think he cares. The weird thing is he is so easily manipulated by his daughters who use him for everything, especially money. They are 22 and 20 years old, refuse to work, spoiled, recently found out one is shop lifting and she has no need to. They ridicule him, ignore him, make fun of him, just like his x wife did, and he just follows them around like a puppy. Its an emotional nightmare for me because my instinct is to protect him, I love him, but honestly he doesn't deserve it, he's been a bully to me my whole life. I want to talk to him, but you can't get a word in and he lies. Plus he flips it all around and blows up. I decided not to attend Christmas this year, I just can't, I feel the need to separate, but family values make me feel guilty. Sad.

10:45 PM  

My stepson is the N in our life and his dad my husband is I suspect codependent and definitely is his sons supply. He admits his son shows some signs of narcissism but stops short of accepting he is. He won't go no contact because he feels it's wrong to "abandon " your child. I have gone no contact with him I got tired of being his scapegoat. My concern is my husband cannot see how skewed his son has his thinking. I can always tell when they have had any contact because my husband becomes depressed moody easily angered and will lie about contact with him. The only time my husband has ever lied up me in our 17 years together is when his son is some how involved. Any advice would be great

6:27 PM  

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